<BACK><OUTLINE><HOME>Michael Levine
Radio Interview
Shortcut:
Department of Justice blowing cover on DEA Investigation in Mexico
Transcript
Mark Scott Show
Thu, 24 Oct 1996, 10:00 - 12:00 EST
WXYT AM 1270
Detroit, MichiganMARK SCOTT: Our guest, who is author of a couple books, is also a man who
was involved as a deep cover agent for the DEA, Michael Levine. And
we'll be talking about what's going on in the world of drug running, who
is really behing the drugs on America's streets. O.J. Simpson for that
matter has some connection with that... at least that's what some folks
are saying... and we are told. And there's an interesting story about
how now they're saying there's no evidence that the CIA played a role in
the introduction of crack cocaine in this country. At least that's what
the CIA is saying. CIA officials are saying that at a Senate hearing.
It's being touted about in the local... in the major newspapers as the
final distillation of truth. I mean the CIA said it so therefore it's
true. And this at a Senate hearing. But Inspector General, Frederick
Hits<sp> said it might take months to fully examine the relationship
between the CIA and Nicaraguan Contras in the 1980's. The San Jose
Mercury News story, as you know, in a three-part series said a San
Francisco area drug ring sold tons of coke to street gangs of South
Central Los Angeles, funneled millions in profits to the U.S. backed
guerilla army in Nicaragua. If you have anybody who's sitting on the
fence on this story you'll... they sure as hell want to hear what
Michael Levine had to say because he's a guy who's been there. He has
been there. He's been in there and out and back in again and out. So the
guy knows the story deep, wide, and continuous. And you'll hear it here
on Mark Scott.<program break>
SCOTT: The colossal media cover-up of the real story behind the phony "War
on Drugs." And I say that has been a monsterous cover-up that has kept
most Americans in what Phil O'Halloran, in one of the latest... September
issue of Relevance publication, reports as the perpetual ignorance on the
subject. Perpetual ignorance. And that's true with the just published
findings of the Mercury News story and the work of Gary Webb, the Mercury
News staff writer out on the West Coast. And the investigative writer...
or investigative reporter, Gary Webb. The task of those people, the spin
doctors or myth-makers and the rest of the mainstream press is one that is
one that is probably getting as tough as can be. They now have this new
face, the impressive work of Gary Webb from the San Jose Mercury News, and
they have this new face to discredit... to beat down... pound down...
which is what they are attempting to do... They. And now you've heard
about the investigation of the CIA has come foward and the evidence that
the CIA played a role in the introduction of crack cocaine. The CIA is
saying... The CIA is saying, this is at a Senate hearing, they're saying
that there is no evidence that the CIA played a role in the introduction.
Now the drug ring suppliers of cocaine, as we have been told, were
Nicaraguan, members of the same Contra movement that was directed by the
world of the US intelligence community. And Gary Webb's three-part series,
"Dark Alliance," hit the San Jose streets August 18th, 19th, and 20th,
1996, spread widespread outrage and demands for an investigation by black
leaders across the country. We talked with Maxine Waters here on this
broadcast. No matter what you may think of Maxine Waters and how you may
disagree with her about many things, I'm gonna tell you on this one she
has... she's right on target. And they're angry because the reporter has
detailed the links between the CIA... the CIA's own Contra army, the FDN,
and the crack cocaine dealing LA gangs known as the Crips and the Bloods.
All of this going back to the drugs intoduction in the mid- 1980's. A man
who knows a great deal... I don't know if he's with us or not. Is he on
line? Yes he is. A man who knows a great deal about this is a guest we've
had before. He is the author of Deep Cover. That was his job. He was
undercover. He was in deep cover for the DEA. He is author of The Big
White Lie and, his latest book, Triangle of Death. Which I have not
received any copies of any of the books so I can't really talk to you
about that. But Michael Levine, thanks for joining us.MICHAEL LEVINE: Happy to be on. Thanks for having me on.
SCOTT: It's good to have you with us once again.
LEVINE: Yeah I'm surprised that, you know, Delacourt<sp> Press hasn't sent
you... You'll just have to call 'em I guess and let me know who you spoke
to.SCOTT: Well that's what the producers are supposed to do. They're supposed
to get those things for me and they're... they're supposed to make sure
that the CIA does not intercept my mail. <laughs>LEVINE: They're a pretty sneaky bunch. I don't wanna say, you know, all of
them. That's...SCOTT: Is it a rogue faction?
LEVINE: Well we don't know unless we investigate and that's my whole
point.SCOTT: And nobody wants to do they?
LEVINE: No. Because right now you have Congresional hearings and it's kind
of like watching a good game of... a great Three Card Monty player. You
know. You know what Three Card Monty is. Where you get the sucker on the
other side of a table, and he gets to try and pick the Ace out of three
cards as they're being shuffled. And there's always a sucker card that
looks like the most obvious one. And in that great Three Card Monty game
the government is playing with us known as the "War on Drugs" the sucker
card is a Congressional hearing, you know, 'cause you had Congressional
hearings under John Kerry that found... There is no doubt about it! The
report says individuals supported cocaine trafficking and that means US
goverment individuals and they didn't go to jail. We have a Congress that
in the words of Senator Pike, in the words of Senator Church, Central
Intelligence has always been completely unresponsive to Congress, they've
been called a rogue elephant. And in my case I've been a deep cover agent,
a Drug Enforcment Administration supervisor, I've served in every capacity
for our government, you know, trying to put drug dealers in jail and I've
put thousands of Americans in jail... thousands, and that's no
understatement... for conspiracy to violate to drug laws. And let me give
you an example of what conspiracy is. Two New York City policemen... I ran
a massive case in New York back in the eighties...SCOTT: Okay, is this gonna be long? Because I have break coming up and if
it is we'll take it after the break.LEVINE: Well I'll cut it short. They knew their friend was trafficking in
drugs. They didn't make any money, they looked the other way, and they got
sentenced 10 years a piece for conspiracy.SCOTT: Alright. Michael Levine was an agent with the Drug Enforcement
Administration for at least 25... Is that 25 years?LEVINE: 25 years with four federal agencies.
SCOTT: Alright... And he's talking with us. Micheal Levine's personal
stake in the drug war way beyond his job with the DEA. We'll fill you in
on that and find out about some of the latest things that have been
happening or not happening and why. These are the words from a man who's
inside. Deep cover. Micheal Levine. Mark Scott on Detroit radio AM 1270
WXYT.<program break>
SCOTT: America's crack plague and the roots it has in... well, where?
Michael Levine, agent in the Drug Enforcement Administration for 25 years,
is our guest. As I was saying, his personal stake in the drug war extended
way beyond his job aat the DEA. His son Keith, a New York City police
officer was killed trying to stop a robbery by crack addicts. His brother
ended up comitting suicide as a result of drug addiction. And here is a
man that has rolled up his sleeves and he's going at it full tilt.LEVINE: What it comes down to, Mark, is real simple. You know, I've put
thoousands of Americans of every race, creed, and color behind bars for
tens of thousands of years for doing a lot less than the evidence against
Central Intelligence, against Oliver North, possibly against President
Bush, himself, going all the way up the line. And when I say evidence I
mean very hard evidence. The strange thing about America is that, you
know, we fall for the same con game over and over and over. And that's
why less and less agents from the inside are gonna come out and talk.
Because you not only have this complacency on the part of the public. You
also have mainstream media attacking anyone who comes out and tells the
truth. And in this case I can clearly see why. I remember all the way back
during Iran-Contra while Senator Kerry was saying, you know, our covert
agencies have converted themselves to channels for drugs. That's a hell of
a statement. That's a massive... That...SCOTT: Go over that again?
LEVINE: He said, "Our covert agencies have been converted themselves to
channels for drugs, a further betrayal of the American people." That's the
words of a US Senator that investigated Oliver North, Central
Intelligence. Twelve of those sessions were "executive sessions," that is
they were secret. They were kept secret from the American people.
Desvista-... I know some of the testimony. It's desvistating!SCOTT: This was the 1980's?
LEVINE: In the mid-eighties.
SCOTT: Mid-eighties.
LEVINE: And at the same time...
SCOTT: Well now my producer tells me that they're... that Kerry's back-
tracking.LEVINE: Well Kerry right now is saying yeah he sent it... he sent all the
information over to Weld. <laughs> You know, they were both running for
the Senate in Massachusettes. You have to get the transcripts of their
most recent statements. Kerry says, no doubt about it. He sent evidence
over to Weld who was then the...SCOTT: Hey Bob! Pay attention to this, okay. We're doing a broadcast here.
We're talking about this. You need to know this information, so that you
can pursue it when we... when you talk to Kerry. So listen closely to what
he's saying.LEVINE: Oh yeah. You know, Jack Bloom just yesterday testified... Jack
Bloom was Kerry's chief counsel. And he testified on CNN. You don't even
have to go to Kerry. Jack Bloom said, "Yes, we've found the CIA was
looking the other way and intervening in drug cases." Now I just told you
two New York City policemen, just for looking the other way, went to jail
for 10 years a piece.SCOTT: Well, nobody in the CIA is going to jail.
LEVINE: Well, especially not when them going to jail can right up to
presidents... presidents of the United States. The evidence is so
overwhelming. You know, I remember sitting with a bunch of DEA people
around the time of the Iran-Contra hearings and around that time Central
Intelligence was named by us, the Drug Enforcement Administration, as the
"Cocaine Import Agency." And I remember Senator Al D'Amato saying to
America, "We tax Americans billions to fight drugs and we're in bed with
these guys. It's mind-boggling!" That's a direct quote. At the same time
The Washington Post, Michael Itschov<sp>, their drug writer wrote, "There
is no credible evidence linking the Contras to drug trafficking." So
somewhere in the middle there is immense lies, immense cover-up and we
agreed and we were all professionals we put... again, thousands and
thousands of Americans in jails for conspiracies to violate the drug laws.
We allo agreed that the evidence was so powerful, so damning, and went so
high up in the government ladder against so many many people that if this
invstigation were ever followed to its full extent, the American people
would lose faith in the two-party system, would lose faith in its
leadership, lose faith in its government and we believed that that's why
the press was and is covering up.SCOTT: Michael, in my audience right now and the people that are listening
the only people who haven't lost faith in the two political parties and in
politics and academe here in this country are the very naive. They are
probably the people who just can't... tuned into the audience... to this
broadcast today.LEVINE: Yeah. You know, I... from the point of view of the drug war, I
would reccomend no one who reads... don't even bother reading the New York
Times and The Washington Post. Historically they've covered up for... you
know, massive government involvement in drug trafficking to us! I... you
know, it's overwhelming. I couldn't even... I could go for the next three
hours just talking about specific instances like the one I just mentioned.SCOTT: I...
LEVINE: Go ahead.
SCOTT: I know that your book, The Big White Lie recently describes some of
the... some of the exploits of the CIA's role in... in global drug
dealing.LEVINE: Well, it's more than that.
SCOTT: Well... yeah. Give us the... what it... was... tell us what the
book is actually about pertaining to the drug war, the CIA, and global
dealing.LEVINE: Let me tell you about the two non-fiction books I wrote. I wrote a
book at first, Deep Cover which was a New York Times bestseller. It was
about Operation Trifecta<sp>. I was heading up a deep cover sting
operation. I was posing as a half-Sicilian, half-Puerto Rican mafia don
and... we went to the top of the drug world in three countries: Bolivia,
Panama, and Mexico. And on videotape as part of the deep cover operation
we... I had... if you and I were sitting in front of a camera now we'd run
the videotape, I'd show this to you. Posing as this mafia don I had the
body guard of the incoming president of Mexico, Carlos Salinas, promising
me a wide open Mexico once he is elected... a wide open Mexico for drug
trafficking. Also on camera is the grandson of an ex-president, a Mexican
Colonel who's talking about training the Contras. This is in 1987. The
deal... I was plugged into a pipeline right into Southern California. The
deal was 15 tons of cocaine bought in Bolivia, trans- shipped across
Mexico. This was a pipeline! And I was literally renting the Mexican army.
Now that videotape went to the Attorney General of the United States.
These were people who were also linked... and we linked them to the
murderers of Enrique "Qui Qui" Camarena<sp>, a DEA agent who was tortured
to death. And we'll get into him a little later. He's a very interesting
case, a horiffic case, but the facts about that case very few people are
really aware of. Well, that videotape went to the Attorney General of the
United States, after which I was told he telephoned the Attorney General
of Mexico... Now mind you, our investigation was going into the Attorney
General of Mexico's office, right into the top of the Mexican goverment!And Edwin Meese warned him about... blew our cover... blew the cover of a
deep cover investigation. I was horrified but I couldn't write it until I
had some substantiantion of this. It was then substantiated by Elaine
Shannon, a Newsweek journalist and written about in her book so I put it
in my book. When you have the head of the Justice Department blowing the
biggest drug case in DEA's history for political reasons who do you turn
to? <laughs> I mean it's kind of ridiculous! That's the position that
we're in right now. What... Then in The Big White Lie was another
monsterous deep cover investigation again posing as a half-Sicilian,
half-Puerto Rican mafia don I was stationed in Argentina and we penetrated
what was about to become the biggest drug dealing corporation on the face
of the earth and the case was killed by Central Intelligence. I documented
that. They supported ex-Nazis like Klaus Barbi<sp>, Argentine mass
murderers in the take-over of Bolivia.SCOTT: Let's hold it right there and pick it up at that point. That the
CIA killed that investigation. Alright. This was where?LEVINE: This was in Argentina, Bolivia... The case was massive.
SCOTT: Okay we'll pick it up at that point as we continue our conversation
with Michael Levine, "Deep Cover," on Mark Scott.<program break>
SCOTT: Our guest, deep cover agent, Michael Levine on Mark Scott telling
us what's going on in the world of drug running, who is really behind the
drugs on America's streets. His books: Deep Cover, The Big White Lie, his
latest book, Triangle of Death. And in Triangle of Death it's the story of
his mission to bring to justice the murder of... Excuse me, I has to... I
was coughing there. ...of fellow deep cover agent Rene Viareno<sp>...LEVINE: Exactly.
SCOTT: ...who vanished while on top of a secret misssion to find the
source of this new form of cocaine which is a sex-based mind control drug
known as "white queen." And I want to talk a bit about that too, but let's
get back to the CIA killing intelligence... Oh I'm sorry. ...killing the
investigation in Argentina and Bolivia. And that reminds me of the
story... And I want to see how this compares... how this compares with
you. A couple of... "The International Connection," the book in 1974 by
Lamburdi<sp> and Catherine Lamore<sp>. Michael Lamburdi, Catherine Lamore,
a couple of journalists who wrote about the foxes guarding the public
chicken coop and their observation is this. This is taken out of a... out
of a Relevance article here. "Observers are agreed that in every..." This
is the writing of Lamburdi and Lamore. "Observers are agreed that in every
country concerned with the production, consumption, conversion, or
conveyance of illegal narcotics, the traffic is protected if not organized
by highly placed personages to all intensive purposes beyond the reach of
the law."LEVINE: Yeah. And that's exactly what we deep cover agents found. I mean,
deep cover agents are a small group of people who posed as criminals and
went into other countries, usually in violation of that country's laws,
And...SCOTT: So now... so... and so if the traffickers didn't have this
protection in political and administrative circles... What I have been
told by people who are defending the CIA on this course is that they would
be unable to operate with any efficiency. Is that true?LEVINE: Well, you have to... No, it's absolutely untrue and fist of all
you have to look at what CIA... what's their performance been? They...
you know, they've supported...SCOTT: They're bringing drugs into the country!
LEVINE: Yeah, that's exactly what they've done! You know, they...
they're... they keep waving when you try to investigate them they keep
waving the national security card but you know how can they validly wave a
national security card when their Chief of Soviet Counter- intelligence...
And mind you the war against the Soviets was their main reason for being.
For eight years their Chief of Soviet Counter- intelligence sold every
secret they had to the Soviets! Okay, so being that they don't have any
security how can they claim national security? It's bizarre.SCOTT:<laughs>
LEVINE: And yet we can't look at their drug dealing because they claim
national security. So you have to immediately say these guys are out of
control. You can't pay any attention when they say national security
because they just don't have any. Now, what we deep cover agents found
everywhere is that we were successful. We got right to the top of the
drug... I personally hit the top of the drug world, dealt with the top
traffickers in the world posing as a criminal, and wrote about it in two
non-fiction books: Deep Cover and The Big White Lie, and in every case
found these traffickers in bed with our Central Intelligence Agency.
Exactly as Senator Al D'Amato said, "We're in bed with these guys." We
were. We are. We still are. But its worse than that. I saw and I lived
through it... indications that CIA wasn't just doing this to fund covert
operations. There is every indication in the world that a lot of the money
diverted went into the pockets of criminals like Aldrich Ames! Only...
you know... Can you imagine the FBI could not investigate Aldrich Ames.
They had to literally fight CIA to get this spy against America! And they
had to fight the CIA's claims of national security to get... to arrest the
worst risk we ever had to national security! So imagine, what chance does
a guy like me who was just one individual and now others are coming out
finally. What chance... If a whole agency like the FBI... It took them
years to get Aldrich Ames fighting Central Intelligence. What chance to
the American people have to really get at the truth? It's really
devastating.SCOTT: Slim to none, and Slim left town. As a friend of mine, Neil Fink,
would say.LEVINE: Yes. This is... You know... You couldn't make this stuff up. And
here I am... I wrote two non-fiction books detailing in the way that I
would if I were presenting a case for prosecution against Central
Intelligence and, you know, thinking, Wow! Maybe the Senate or Congress
was gonna call me. May this would... something would happen. Both books
were national bestsellers. Deep Cover was a New York Times bestseller.
But nothing happened and then one night I was watching a movie with my
wife, and it was a Jack Ryan movie. You know who Jack Ryan is.SCOTT: Oh yes. The... Yeah. Great actor!
LEVINE: Great... great actor. He...
SCOTT: He played terrific...
LEVINE: He's kinda like an Ollie North look-a-like. And he... In this
movie... I forgot the name of it. He... You know... He always saves
America. He's a CIA agent.SCOTT: Are you talking about Clear and Present Danger?
LEVINE: Yeah, I think that was it.
SCOTT: Oh, that's Harrison Ford.
LEVINE: Oh yeah...
SCOTT: Yeah.
LEVINE: Okay. But the irony of it was, you know, at the end the... I think
he arrests the...SCOTT: Movie buff over here on my left-hand side, Chuck Keller, is giving
me this information here. Jack Ryan was the name of the character. Yeah. I
remember the... But I do remember the actor, Jack Ryan, he was...LEVINE: Yeah, well, here we go, you know, you have this... And millions
and millions and millions of Americans have seen this. And Central
Intelligence... I mean if they hired Madison Avenue and paid them 100
million a year for PR they couldn't get a better than these movies because
I llok around at the end of this movie this CIA agent is arresting the
President of the United States who, by the way, is a George Bush
look-a-like for...SCOTT: <laughs>
LEVINE: ...for what? For drug trafficking! You know and I looked all
around me people were on their feet applauding and I saw some one guy had
tears in his eyes and I realized... It dawned on me that people believe
this. They don't believe non-fiction books written by a deep cover agent
who put... happens to put tens of thousands of Americans in jail. They
believe this! So at that point my wife and partner, Laura Cavanaugh and I
decided that we would write a thriller and base it on the real thing...
real CIA agents rather than, you know, this fictional character. Base it
on real events like the murder of "Qui Qui" Camareno<sp>. Base it on real
drugs. You know... that I heard Central Intelligence was behind the
genetic engineering of a drug that would literally steal our
Constitutional rights if it flooded the streets.SCOTT: Alright here... Go ahead. Go ahead.
LEVINE: So we decided to... And that's the birth of Triangle of Death.
Triangle of Death is kind of this flip side of Jack Ryan only it's real,
based on reality. And it's not pretty. And so, in a sense, Triangle of
Death is probably the most important work we've done, because it's based
on reality and it presents a very very dangerous image of Central
Intelligence and people in our government who think... who believe that we
have too many Constitutional rights for our own good... who believe that
Americans really just want a job, a television to watch, sports, and they
have too many Constitutional rights for their own good, which by the way,
were the words of a CIA officer I worked with in Argentina. And this gave
birth to Triangle of Death and the real thing. The character in Trangle of
Death is Forrest Gregg<sp>.SCOTT: Okay, we have a break here. I want to take some calls as well. So
here you are in the 1980's you're a deep cover agent posing as a high
level drug lord who... and you've established contact with the close
associates of Carlos Salinas Degutari<sp>, the guy who's going to become
Mexican President.LEVINE: President of Mexico.
SCOTT: Yeah. And also later this sting operation know as Trifecta.
LEVINE: Operation Trifecta.
SCOTT: ...which came to a head in January of '88.
LEVINE: January of '88. Exactly.
SCOTT: And this after a lot of hard work. A lot of dangerous undercover
work. Carlos Salinas was only seven months away from becoming the
president. When we return I want you to tell the audience about one of his
bodyguards and the grandson of the president and what transpired there
because as I understand it all of this stuff is well-documented.LEVINE: Oh, better than well-documented.
SCOTT: Alright we'll get...
LEVINE: Look I've never lost a case that I presented in court and I do
this business for 25 years.SCOTT: Alright. We'll pause right here. Take the break, put a button on
it, and be right back on Mark Scott.<program break>
Subject: Deep Cover DEA Agent - Part 2 of 3
Transcript
Mark Scott Show
Thu, 24 Oct 1996, 10:00 - 12:00 EST
WXYT AM 1270
Detroit, MichiganPART 2 OF 3
SCOTT: WXYT AM 1270. Detroit Talk Radio. This is Mark Scott. Our guest is
Michael Levine, America's top undercover cop, deep cover. Let me get to
Bob from Livonia who has something to... Alright, Bob, lay it on us. I
wanna hear this.BOB#1: Good morning, gentlemen.
SCOTT: Yes. Good morning.
BOB#1: I have a personal stake in this for the fact that I've lived in
crack cocaine neighborhoods before and uh...SCOTT: You were watching PBS late night last night and you saw Gary Webb.
BOB#1: I saw a representative of the Los Angeles Times claim that Gary
Webb and the editor of the San Jose Mercury News are now withdrawing
certain aspects of the story including a factual error. The thought that
the Contras introduced crack cocaine into the California area and things
like that, but...SCOTT: Well the... That wasn't part of the... It wasn't the Contras that
they were talking about introducing it. Were they?BOB1: Well, CIA... Contra...
SCOTT: Yeah, CIA. Okay. Alright so... I see the tracking there. Go ahead.
BOB#1: So they're not being all that specific about what they are
retracting and this has really disturbed me because the drugs are such a
plague... a devestation on the land and here we are. It's like people are
playing games with the facts here.LEVINE: Nobody's playing any games. In fact if you heard Montel Williams
last week I was on with Jack Blum and a spokesman from Accuracy in Media.
And Jack Blum is the Chief Counsel for the United States Senate during
that whole investigation and he said, "We proved it. There's no doubt
about it. We proved Central Intelligence was supporting drug dealers
throughout this thing." I, as a Drug Enforcement Adminstation agent have
been saying this for years. I don't need the Gary Webb piece one way or
the other. I lived it. I put thousands of Americans in jail for the same
kind of evidence I presented in my book yet our congress chose not to
pursue it... not to investigate it. I can give you specific evidence
and... Again, I don't care what Gary Webb's piece said. You've got your
own congress saying... telling it to you. What's the doubt when you have
the Se-... Senator Kerry say, "Our covert agencies have converted
themselves to channels for drugs." and you have Al D'Amato saying "It's
mind-boggling! We tax Americans billions to fight drugs but we're in bed
with these guys." Where's the doubt? There is no doubt anymore.SCOTT: Well, you know there's... Something happened here. There is a wall
of silence that has been tossed up around Gary Webb, Bob Adams tells me.
We've tried to get Gary Webb back on the broadcast a number of times. We
can't get through to him.LEVINE: Well, Gary Webb is deluged. I just did a show... He was on
satellite and we were on television together on Fox news the other
night...SCOTT: Well, does he sound like he's recanting things to you?
LEVINE: He's not recanting a thing. There's an assault on this whole...
on that article by the press... by the national media which, you know, you
take for instance... again, the recent article by The Washington Post
said, "We investigated the Webb piece..." And they found no
substantiation. Investigate? What kind of investigation can it possibly be
when I'm a professional at this business and I'm sitting here with a...
one page dated 9 July '84 from Oliver North's personal notebook that I
got, myself, from the national security archives. This was all evidence
that was never investigated by the way and in the notebook Oliver North
has a conversation with a top CIA official, Dewey Claridge<sp>... who by
the way was convicted of perjury and lying to Congress and pardoned by
President Bush and in this conversation he refers to a conversation with
Calero who is listed... Adolfo Calero, the Contra leader, who is in a
direct evidenciary chain right to "Freeway" Ricky Ross. And in the
conversation Oliver North notes, "Aircraft needed to pick up 1,500 kilos."
Now I... You know... Doing what I did for 25 years...SCOTT: W-w-wait wait a minute. Wait. Hold... Get... This is... What is
this again?LEVINE: He says, "Aircraft needed to pick up 1,500 kilos." Now this is one
page of more than 500 in Oliver North's personal diaries that reflected
drugs. All of these pages got to... mysteriously got to Senator Kerry
after the venue... that is after he had the power to continue
investigating and none of these pages were ever... And I don't care what
they say. None of these pages were ever investigated. I looked for any
indication that it was investigated and found none. As a matter of fact
people who took part in the Walsh Committee said that a drug
investigation... Mind you that whole Walsh Report... they didn't even
mention drugs! Why? Because they were specifically precluded from
mentioning drugs and if you watch the Iran-Contra hearings as I did, you
saw that when drugs came up... There was one instance that I can't get out
of my mind. My God. Senator Kerry started to talk about CIA and drug
trafficking and Senator Boron got up and interjected. And then Kerry said,
oh yes yes we have an agreement that this isn't going to be mentioned.
That's on video! It's accessible to any American who cares. The cover-up
is astounding. So have The Washington Post saying they conducted an
investigation. And I'm sure they didn't look at this page or any of the
500 pages of Oliver North. I just took this one instance of evidence and I
try to pursue it and what I found was astounding. I found that around the
middle of July a pilot by the name of Betsner<sp>, one of five who
testified before Kerry that they were flying drugs under CIA contract in
and out of a ranch known as the John Ho Ranch<sp> in Costa Rica, flew 17
duffle bags full of cocaine right after this phone call from the Ho Ranch
which was supported by Ollie North. They flew 17 duffle bags full of
cocaine into the United States. Now to me that's massive massive evidence
that has to be investigated. What kind of investigation could The
Washington Post have done? It's just bizarre.SCOTT: What's even more bizarre is that this guy, Ollie North is looked
upon like, you know, mother, God, and apple pie by the so-called cosmetic
conservatives in this country.LEVINE: Well, Nancy Reagan, God bless her soul, came out and called him a
liar and that's probably the most valuable thing done by the whole Reagan
administration.SCOTT: She's probably the one person who really identified him as what he
is. Yes. A is A. A thing is what it is.LEVINE: Michael hold on right there and we're gonna get back to Bob from
Livonia? Stay with us, Bob... on Mark Scott.<program break>
SCOTT: We're talking air-tight cover-up, high crimes, misdemeaners... the
kind of things we saw in the drug trial of Manuel Noriega but that's not
the only place and we're talking to the man who in the mid-1980's as a
deep cover DEA agent, Mike Levine, was posing as a high level drug lord
and the things that happened as a result of that. At this time he was...
he was... he had established contacts with close associates of the
soon-to-be Mexican president and of course later George Bush/NAFTA ally,
Carlos Salinas Deguartare<sp> and you talked about one of the DEA sting
operations, Trifecta. And at the time Carlos Salinas was only seven months
away from becoming the president and you recall that one of his
bodyguards...LEVINE: Pablo Perone
SCOTT: Perone and Colonel Juarhe<sp>...
LEVINE: ...Querensa<sp>
SCOTT: Querensa. Yeah.
LEVINE: Yeah, Pablo Perone was the candida-... then candidate Deguartare's
bodyguard and with him at an undercover house we had cameras and
everything. Hidden videocameras and microphones hidden everywhere and
there I am posing as Luis Muigel Garcia<sp> half- Sicilian/Half-Puerto
Rican mafia don and we had already penetrated right to the top of the drug
world. This is a fifteen ton cocaine deal and basically it was cocaine
going right through Bolivia though Mexico and right into Southern
California and this was... We were right into the pipeline. So on camera I
was literally renting the whole Mexican army. And things were a little
tight. You can see in the conversation on the video that they had to do
things on the slide, but they told me it's gonna be much easier once
Deguartare is elected. In fact, Perone told me that once Deguartare was
elected he, Perone, had been promised to the top cop in Tijuana, which is
like the doorway into the US, and from that point on I could deal with him
directly and it's gonna be wide open for me. Meaning me, the mafia don.
So you had Deguartare through his people promising a wide open Mexico to
drug traffickers once he's elected. At the same time he was promising to
both our Republican and Democratic Parties that he would push NAFTA
through. So now this video goes to the Attorney General of the United
States. Everything happened. I mean the case started to come apart. All
the logistic support was withdrawn. Myself and an undercover customs
agent by the name of Juarhe Ortejo<sp> who since then left that whole
business. He's now in another government agency that has to do with
environment. He just couldn't take... After what happened to us he
literally had to throw cold water on himself. He... The... We were left
out to dry. We [were] left out, literally, to die in Panama and...SCOTT: Michael, we have a minute to go. Can you stay with us for our next
hour?LEVINE: Sure
SCOTT: Alright. We'll continue this and I want to take the phone calls
from people who are on the line now. 559-1270. You get into this
conversation 'folks. What's interesting too is in making this tape the
tape was fowarded as evidence to DEA officials in the United States. The
two guys that we were talking about were sent to jail for 30 years based
on your work...LEVINE: Oh yes.
SCOTT: But Salinas and the other big fish...
LEVINE: ...were protected.
SCOTT: Yeah. Well, we'll pursue that in just a moment as we continue our
conversation with deep cover agent, Mike Levine.<program break>
SCOTT: Well, drugs aren't getting into this country through any back door.
It's getting in this country though the front gate. That's what we're
coming to find out. And the man that we're talking with is a deep cover
agent, our guest, Michael Levine, America's top undercover cop, and his
experience. He tells us what's going on with the world of drug running and
who is really behind the drugs on America's streets. Who is... Who are the
big guys here in this country? Who can we name, Michael?LEVINE: When you say "the big guys"...
SCOTT: Well, I mean we look at George Bush. Last time we talked I think
Shaklee's name came up...LEVINE: Well, it's a matter of connecting the dots. For instance, you have
in this one page from Ollie North... This is one out of 500 pages that
were never investigated where he says, "Aircraft needed to pick up 1,500
kilos." Now that's... In that conversation he's talking to one of the top
CIA officials at that time, Dewey Claridge. And Dewey Claridge was
pardoned after being convicted of lying to Congress by President Bush. The
conversation also reflects... another conversation with Adolfo Calero and
it appears to be that this is all one context. So you have a man pardoned
by Bush discussing drugs and the Contras with Ollie North. Now if you
go... you check testimony before Iran-Contra Committee you find that one
of five pilots who testified about flying drugs in and out of the Ho Ranch
in Costa Rica. Now Ho was under North's payroll. He testified at the same
time of flying 17 duffel bags full of cocaine from the Ho Ranch to the
United States. Now that presented before a grand jury and a jury in the
United States is liable to convict everyone right up to Bush. I mean, you
know, it has to be fully investigated. And that's only one item of
hundreds... thousands of items that were never investigated pertaining to
drugs. So how anyone, any journalist, in The LA Times, The Washington
Post, The New York Times can say they conducted an investigation and they
found no substantiation that's a bald-faced lie... or bald-faced
incompetence. It's one or the other, because I am considered one of the
top experts in this field. I was paid to be a conspiracy investigator for
25 years by your government. I still qualify as an expert, and I'm telling
you that any of those statements by The LA Times, The Washington Post, The
New York Times that they've investigated this is... it borders on
bizarrre. Guys who work with me, and really experts in the field, we all
kind of shake our head. And, again, going all the way back to the days of
Iran-Contra, we were all convinced that there was so much evidence
indicating high-level government involvement in drug trafficking that we
understood... or we thought we did why the mass media, or the national
media, was covering up for it. There's a great fear. There's a great fear,
maybe justified...SCOTT: Okay, many people have a lot of questions they want to ask, and
I'll tell you, I could do six hours with you and, you know, we would
never... we'd just never get into just everything that we'd want to get
into. One more thing. And that is, did you ever have to do any murders for
the United States government?LEVINE: Well, in... in The Big White Lie I described a kidnapping that I
took part in. Let me go back to why Triangle of Death was written as
fiction. It's "faction" I like to call it: fiction based on fact. Deep
cover agents are given one rule and that is, "Resolve every situation in
your own favor." and, "It is better to be tried by twelve than to be
carried by six." Now at the time I went into this work with this small
group of people my brother was dying slowly of herroin addiction and I
felt that the ends did justify the means. But the government knows that
when you live by that rule and you go into other countries in violation of
that country's laws and you're living by your acting ability and you know
that if you're found out you will disappear you do things to... to save
your butt that you can never tell about and... and... the... I've come
full circle. I don't believe the ends justify the means anymore but I did
live that life. That... And I came out with things I can never talk about
and you unwittingly become part of the US government mafia and they expect
you will remaine silent so I did the best I could and wrote fiction, The
Triangle of Death. Triangle of Death by the way is a real organization
that was begun by Nazis right after World War II, still functions right
now, and...SCOTT: So... so what'd you have to do here in this situation. How did you
handle it? Were you ever... you know, you did the kidnapping. What
happened?LEVINE: I... we... we brought. I describe the situation sompletely in the
book. It's accurate. We brought three... We brought three members of
Corsican Mafia (By the way, these were members of the original
organization, the Trianlgle of Death.) from Agentina, with bags over their
heads that Keith knocked out, in chains. They'd never toured... Of the
three who'd never set foot in the United States one's was Francois
Chappe<sp>, the other was Muigel Russo and Yolanda Samiento<sp> and went
down to America posing as a soccer team, a football team, and we brought
these people bak as I described to stand trial for conspiracy to traffick
drugs to the US even though two of them had never set foot in the U.S. in
their lives. And this was done in 1974. Now kidnapping is legal. <laughs>
Our Supreme Court ruled it legal. The trouble is apparently to get some of
the people in our government involved in drug trafficking America's gonna
have to kidnap 'em. <laughs>SCOTT: Did you ever have to... Did you ever have to kill any of these
people?LEVINE: Well look. There was one...
SCOTT: Just give me the simple yes or no and I can do the break and then
we'll come back.LEVINE: There... there's... It's a very... It's impossible to answer it...
answer that question directly. I just can't do it.SCOTT: I had to do that for the government.
LEVINE: You were in Viet Nam?
SCOTT: Y-... No, I was in Korea.
LEVINE: Okay, you... w-well, you've got it. I mean... There's some kind
of... There's an incident in Triangle of Death I describe where a woman
trafficker who really exists, a powerful woman criminal, says to me...SCOTT: Let's hold it right here.
LEVINE: Yeah.
SCOTT: Let's... We'll pick it up at this point. I'm Mark Scott.
<program break>
SCOTT: Alright, we're hearing it from Michael Levine, America's top
undercover cop, author of Deep Cover, Big White Lie, Triangle of Death.
Michael.LEVINE: Yeah, go ahead.
SCOTT: So what happens here? I mean you guys have to take people out.
LEVINE: This is... This is one of I don't know how many incidents... I did
this for 25 years, Mark, and you live with these criminals and they have
the ability to kill you, you know, at any moment and I had one... just
exactly as I describe in Triangle of Death. She says, "You know there's
only one way I will trust you and that's if you kill for me." And my
mind... I was one of those who worked at setting up these big sting
operations, these intricate scam operations and my mind works that way,
and immediately I started coming up with some scenario that could make it
happen and then she adds the kicker and that is she said,"...and I want to
be there to watch." Well, all I can say is that what we do in the book is
what's fairly close to what happened in real life, and again that's why
the book is fiction because you can't... you know... Let me tell you about
the murder of Verneva Eureino<sp> in the book. The torture murder. Now in
real life DEA agent Enrique "Qui Qui" Camarena<sp>, let me tell you what
happened to him. People forget. He was a DEA agent working on high level
drug investigations. He was stationed in Guadalajara, Mexico and his
investigations were taking him right into the Contra resupply lines that
is the Contras trafficking in drugs with the support of the Hondurans, the
Mexicans, and everybody else and Enrique was down there working this case
with an informer and suddenly he's arrested in broad daylight by Mexican
police. He's take to a ranch of a top Mexican criminal and slowly tortured
to death over a 24 hour period.SCOTT: That's a grusome story. It really is. Yeah.
LEVINE: And then this is the... one of the inspirations of Triangle of
Death. And they... a doctor is there and the doctor keeps him alive and
they record this. Can you imagine how protected these people felt? They
recorded his death on tape recordings. And later what is... what's found
is Enrique was... among other people was investigating someone named Mata
Beyastaros<sp> and Mata Beyasteros' partner Felix Guillardo<sp> and Mata
Beyastaros, by the way, was on the State Department payroll. He... In
spite of him being a documented heavy drug trafficker his airline that we
knew was used to traffic drugs, was used on the US government payroll to
fly these Contra resupply mission. So here's this murderer who was later
convicted of murdering... or conspiring to murder "Qui Qui" Camerena and
he was on the US government payroll in spite of the fact that the DEA
called him a drug trafficker, in spite of the fact that "Qui Qui" Camerena
was investigating him. Now here's "Qui Qui" Camerena investigating the
Oliver North supply line and he's tortured to death. Now "mysteriously,"
and I put that in quotes, Central Intelligence weeks later comes up with
that tape recording and no one in our government sought to question how
they came up with it. Three years later a high level drug tafficker turned
informant named Victor Harrison testifies that the people who murdered
"Qui Qui" Camerena believed they were protected by Central Intelligence.
I, in Operation Trifecta, we uncovered links betwwen the people that we
were dealing with and Guillardo, the believed to be behind... the
mastermind behind the murder of "Qui Qui" Camerena and this, again I
repeat this videotape was given to the Attorney General of the United
States who blew our cover. It's astounding, but these are facts. So the
best I could do with them is put 'em in a work of "faction" now because
apparently non-fiction works, well-documented non-fiction works have
absolutely no effect.SCOTT: Alright I want to move to the calls. Bob from Livonia, good
morning, you're speaking to Michael Levine.BOB#2: Michael, I just wanted to encourage you. And I know it's, you know,
easy maybe for me to say it. Whatever personal cost to you for the benefit
of all of us. I can't tell you how strongly I feel about it. Just keep
putting pressure on enforcement agencies, those legal agencies that are
responsible for enforcing our laws, our legal system, just keep the
pressure up on them. In every case I've tried whether it's coming up with
a creative way of enforcement or just attempting to keep the pressure on
people who will do their job if you stay after them. You've got to stay
after these people until they get to a place where they're exposed and
possibly even convicted. And...SCOTT: Yeah, but if people like Ollie North can walk away from things and
they can turn out to become a hero. They can run for politics in the
United States, come damn close to winning, and become a national
syndicated talk show host. Now give me a break!LEVINE: It's kind of wild. I mean to people like myself and people that
have lost family and there are many of us in America what it shows is an
again one of the reasons we wrote Triangle of Death as fiction is that
people believe fiction. The... you know, Ollie North says, "I was
investigated." and everyone believes it. But you've got to remember Nancy
Reagan called him a liar. He is. He is exactly that. He was never
investigated for drug trafficking because, and a lot of professionals
agree with me. It's clear that a full investigation of Ollie North would
have brought down a whole government. There was so much more evidence
against our top leaders, that they were involved and looked the other way
at drug trafficking. So much more that was involved in, let's say,
Watergate that it is as Al D'Amato said "mind boggling" to us, us
professionals who have to carry in our conscience that we've tens of
thousands... millions of Americans behind bars for so much less.SCOTT: Alright. Bob, thanks for the call. You tell that to the cosmetic
conservatives, however, and they tell you... well you see that's the
rationale and the excuse then, but they can go ahead and continue to
lionize Ollie North, you know, because it would have brought down a
government anyway so...LEVINE: You know the thing about Ollie North is you have to... nobody
sh-... people should read the Welsh Report that allegedly exonerated him.
You know, in the Welsh Report it said things like Ollie North was said to
have bought a car for $12,000 cash and that came from a "slush fund" of
$15,000 that he had in his closet and Ollie North's testimony was that it
was a box that he threw change in and accumulated! <laughs> $15,000! I
mean tell that to an American jury, you know, it...SCOTT: <laughs> Well, look. I mean, I do it all the time!
LEVINE: You can only get away with that before the Senate and a Special
Investigator, you know. That is so bizarre. But that's the truth! No one
wants to hear that.SCOTT: Ed from a cellular, good morning. You're speaking with Michael
Levine.ED: Good morning, gentlemen. I got a just a quick, simple question. It
seems Manuel Noriega was jailed for drugs and all that years ago. I was
just wondering, was he demanding more of his share of his profits? Is that
why they moved him out of the way?LEVINE: No. The truth, and you're probably only going to hear it here,
behind this... the whole Manuel Nori-... Noriega was a CIA employeee for
decades. Diring all that time he was well known for drug trafficking any
number of cases into Manuel Noriega were killed by Central Intelligence
during all those years. George Bush himself as the head of Central
Intelligence, you know, had lunch with Manuel Noriega, had Manuel Noriega
on the payroll for a hundred some odd dollars a year while Noriega was in
forty or fifty DEA files as a drug trafficker. When George Bush was asked
whether he knew he claimed he didn't know. So what he was claiming was
that as the head on Central Intelligence he knew less than my secretary
and...SCOTT: <laughs>
LEVINE: ...and basically America believes that. You know, the man looks
into the camera, he says that and who wouldn't believe? He's the President
of the United States! Well, you've got to remember, Nixon also said, "How
could you dare link me to this cheap burglary?" You know, we're talking
about drug trafficking. Not a burglary, now. And they got away with it.
Now how did the Noriega trial come about? How was he arrested? Well the
fact is a DEA agent like myself didn't know the whole thing was a fraud
and he just kept investigating and nobody stopped him. And he got
together with Richard Gregory, a prosecutor in South Florida who also
didn't know the whole thing is a fraud! And these two guys dragged America
kicking and screaming into a courthouse. And when the Noriega trial came
off the judge disallowed any testimony that would have linked CIA and
effectively covered up the whole thing.SCOTT: Alright we'll pick it up at that point where Judge Hoedler<sp>
refused to permit the defense. You have a follow-up for this, Ed? Do it
quick!ED: Yeah, I was just saying. It was an accident.
SCOTT: Okay, it was an accident.
LEVINE: Yeah it was an accident sending DEA out there to enforce a law
without telling us the game is rigged.SCOTT: I've gotta break it here. I'm Mark Scott.
<program break>
Subject: Deep Cover DEA Agent - Part 3 of 3
Transcript
Mark Scott Show
Thu, 24 Oct 1996, 10:00 - 12:00 EST
WXYT AM 1270
Detroit, MichiganPART 3 OF 3
SCOTT: America's top undercover cop, deep cover man, Michael Levine, is on
Mark Scott and talking with us here. I've lost track on where we were
because I had so many things to do here in this last segment that I don't
recall. Did we leave us hanging in the air here?LEVINE: To tell you the truth, we could just start anywhere, Mark. This
whole thing, I mean, you could literally go... you could go on for months
and...SCOTT: Oh yeah, I remember where we were now. We are talking about the
judge in the Noriega case and that refers to... wait a minute I can't
find...LEVINE: Hoedler<sp>
SCOTT: Yeah, that's the guy. Yeah, that's the guy.
LEVINE: William Hoedler
SCOTT: Judge Hoedler, who refused to permit the defense to show the jury
evidence that the CIA had used... What was that? The BCCI Bank?...LEVINE: BCCI Bank...They would... They could...
SCOTT: Yeah. ...to deposit millions in payments to Noriega. That was the
bank of crooks and criminals. Wasn't it?LEVINE: Yeah. As a matter a fact, they couldn't... Kerry Commission could
not get the federal government to investigate BCCI and the whole
investigation was broken by Jack Blum going to the New York prosecutor,
Henry Morgenthal and asking New York to prosecute BCCI. Our government
backed down entirely. They literally had to be embarassed into going after
BCCI. It's again we're only back to... the only answer I think to get the
state of California to begin investigating a grand jury of American
citizens into this because having this Congressional...SCOTT: Who could call for that?
LEVINE: You can... Any prosecutor... You know, Maxine Waters is talking
about specific instances that occured in California so whatever prosecutor
happens to be in that domain can call for a grand jury investigation and
read it back to CIA. Ohn, they'll just trot out they're national security
card. They have in this court case, by the way, as Gary Webb so accurately
points out. So it's a matter of, "There's nothing to this but we can't
answer any questions because of national security."SCOTT: Hold on a second. Let me get this... Gary from Troy has a question
for me. Gary, you're speaking with Michael Levine.GARY: Good morning. It's a pleasure. I've watched on C-SPAN. I've followed
this thing ever since the Web articles came out. The black community is
outraged over this. Have you gone to Maxine Waters, Mr. Levine, and
offered to be a witness or... I wanna see you on C-SPAN.LEVINE: Yeah I... Well, they haven't had me on C-SPAN but Maxine Waters
and I did let's see I think it was TalkNet, and on TalkNet I told... I
suggested to her that she do this. This morning I was on a radio show with
Maxine Waters and my feeling is, number 1: It's a mistake to make this
thing a black issue because, you know, I lost a son. I lost a brother.
Millions of Americans, black, white, hispanic, have lost children and
relatives and... you know... all to this... all to this cruddy drug war
that has been backed and protected by Central Intelligence and our top
officials. It's not a black issue. It's an American issue and I think
that...SCOTT: So you don't see that the.... that the CIA was doing the
government's work here and that they were practice... attempting to
practice genocide against the black community per se.LEVINE: You can't... That's... It's not a valid claim. It just doesn't
hold water. There's no way you can do that. Once you put drugs into the US
it's everywhere. My boy was killed. But the real danger is... And if I
were a CIA official who was a crook and hiding behind national security
the way Aldrich Ames did for eight years only I was a lot smarter than
that clown and I was making millions off of drug trafficking I would be
very happy if the Black Caucus tries to make it a black issue because once
you do that you immediately notice one thing. Both presidential
candidates aren't even talking about it.SCOTT: No, they're not.
LEVINE: They expect it to go away so they trot out the third card, the
sucker card in the Three Card Monty game which is a Congressional Hearing.
And once again we are treated to a spectacle of Congress pantomiming an
investigation, which is absurd because an investigation into the "Freeway"
Ricky Ross case as part of this overall picture of massive drug
trafficking on the part of Central Intelligence is an investigation that
would require probably half of the Drug Enforcement Administration,
several grand juries, and it would require a couple of years to accurately
run. And my guess is it would result in literally hundreds... dozens up to
hundreds of US government officials going to jail if we could take away
that national security card. That's never gonna happen unless... unless
(and I emphasize this) that we make it the issue that it really is and
that is treason. Treason against all of us, every single American, black ,
white, and hispanic. I'm happy to say that I can see that finally starting
to happen. At least Congressman Waters this morning is sounding like she
is amenable to that. The Black Community did a wonderful job in screaming
and bringing this to the forefront. Now, let's take it for what it is:
treason against all of us and let's go get these guys.SCOTT: We're gonna have to get a hold of Maxine Waters again, Bob, and
talk with her. She was very gracious to give us some time here on the
broadcast a number of weeks ago. We're gonna get back to her. Gary?
Follow-up?GARY: Uh no. Thank you. I appreciate it...
SCOTT: Alright. Thanks, Gary. Tom from Southfield, you're on with Michael
Levine.TOM: Good morning. Got a question for Michael on the Aldrich Ames case.
SCOTT: Yeah.
TOM: One of the things that was funny about the Aldrich Ames case was that
the CIA didn't notice that he'd suddenly become rich.LEVINE: <laughs> Well, he's more than that. I read everything there is
available on that case. I spoke to everybody I knew who had some knowledge
of it. And the whole thing is kind of comical if it wasn't happening to
America by an agency that costs us... has costed us well over a trillion
dollars. And Aldrich Ames was coming to work with Rolex watches. He was
drunk. He had a brand new Jaguar that he had paid cash for. He had a
brand... a house that he paid a half a million dollars cash for. He was
married to a Columbian woman. They were living so far beyond their means,
and wildly. Aldrich Ames, by the way, wasn't using any great stealth
tactics. He taking the documents out, not even Xeroxing them and just
giving them to the KGB. And he did that for eight years. And, you know,
the funny... the really comical thing is that once Aldrich Ames came under
investigation finally and the CIA was literally forced to allow FBI to
investigate what did they do with him? They put him in charge of drug
counter-intelligence. They put him in the narcotics division! <laughs>SCOTT: Jeez
TOM: What I'm wondering is if so many people in the CIA have become
suddenly wealthy that Aldrich Ames was not unusual at CIA Headquarters.LEVINE: That's what I mean. Here you have this agency where a complete
clown and a boob can literally just take the whole agency out of the war
that it was created for. Literally destroy the entire capability in Soviet
Russia, our main enemy at the time. And this guy was absolutely a clown! I
mean my wife... my mother could have investigated him. And so imagine what
some really slick criminals in Central Intelligence can do being directly
plugged into every major drug trafficker on the face of the Earth. The
first thing...first conclusion...SCOTT: Are these guys that dumb or are they just looking the other way,
they don't care?LEVINE: Well, we don't have any protection from Congress.
TOM: Well, what I'm wondering though is if, in fact, Aldrich Ames' sudden
wealth was fairly normal because of the number of people who were getting
rich on drugs?LEVINE: We... Well, you a-... That's a wonderful observation and you just
have to come to the conclusion, at least prima facea, that that's an
agency that's completely out of control. And we've had Congress and Senate
say that over the years, that they are out of control.SCOTT: So it's deeper. The problem is deeper than just a rogue faction.
LEVINE: We don't know! That's the whole point! You know, you can't... I
don't join in people who cry for that agency to be, you know, hauled
and... because there are people within that agency who have fought the
criminal element within that same agency. Unfortunately, they didn't come
out and talk to the public. They try to conduct a heroic war within
Central Intelligence to stop this faction of, I mean, real thieves and
criminals, and they lost! And what they do is they retire. They quit.
They resign and then they keep their mouths shut. And it's unfortunate.SCOTT: Tom, thanks. Break time. We're speaking with America's top
undercover cop, author of Deep Cover, The Big White Lie, his latest book
Triangle of Death, Michael Levine on Mark Scott.<program break>
SCOTT: Alright. Back with our guest deep cover man, Michael Levine on Mark
Scott. Frank from a cellular, good morning. Frank?FRANK: Mark, great show.
SCOTT: Thanks.
FRANK: I'm going to try very much and remain calm here. Here's what the
problem is. We are about to take a very important step in the next
election. Spencer Abraham, Dick Carl, the brothers Levin, Brooks
Patterson, who I know prosecuted drug cases when he was Oakland County
Prosecutor, all of these people who are up for election need to publicly
pledge that they will do their damndest to make sure that this gets
investigated and made fully public and also Ruch Limbaugh is on the air
refuting all of this.SCOTT: I don't wanna talk about Rush, man. You know?
FRANK: I understand that your people have been in touch with his
producers. I spoke with the program manager there and he's not doing
anything about it. It's all a big lie that there is no evidence about this
and it does a disservice to every man and woman that has ever given their
life to this country.SCOTT: You know. When are you people gonna wake up? Rush Limbaugh is
mainstream dittohead America.FRANK: Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree.
SCOTT: Don't expect anything more than that! That's all you're gonna get
and that's it! That's his thing! That's his schtick! Now I don't wanna
talk... I don't wanna talk anymore about Rush.FRANK: Okay, forget about Rush then. But all of these people that are
running for election need to publicly pledge that they will do their
damnedest if elected to make sure that this gets brought out. Because it
is not helping the memory of all the military people that have given their
lives for the idea that this country is supposed to represent. And that's
why everybody is apathetic, because nobody gets caught. They see this crap
going on and nobody does anything about it. Everybody I've talked to says,
"It doesn't suprise me that our government is doing that."SCOTT: Well, these guys all remind me... remember the joke of what happens
when you end up goin' to Hell? And your down there and you're lookin' at
the Devil and the Devil's standin' there and he's laughin' and there are
all these people that are standing in what looks like capital "S" with a
HIT, and with what is capital "S" with a HIT. And these little demons are
driving around in these little speed boats. And everybody is saying,
"Don't make a wave! Don't make a wave!" <laughs>FRANK: Where is Governor Engler?
SCOTT: "Don't make a wave!"
FRANK: All these people have people that listen to your show, okay. They
all do. They all are hearing this and everybody that's going to vote this
election, it's your children that are either going to be sent to war or
are going to be exposed to this if nothing is done.SCOTT: Well. It's a good point, Frank. You have a question for Michael?
FRANK: No, Sir. All I can say is that God has his hands on his heart and
your heart, Mark, at the rish of sounding like a deist. Okay? They all
have their hands on your heart and just thank God that you're around and
thank God that you're station has the guts to put you on the air.SCOTT: Alright, Michael. Thanks.
LEVINE: Yeah. Thanks. You know, I think this is a good time to point out
the real danger that's happening right now. And we try to do it in
Triangle of Death which was based on a conversation... the CIA agent in
the book is based on a conversation I had with a real CIA agent who
thought that America has too many Constitutional rights for... American
people have too many Constitutional rights for their own good. And when
the conversation turned to how do you make America look more like a police
state? We were living in Argentina at the time which was a police state.
He said, "Very easy. You get Americans to ask their own leaders to take
away their Constitution. You do this by creating a situation of fear and
anarchy and panic." And that's exactly what's happening right now. When
you think about the "Freeway" Ricky Ross case, you have to remember also
that as well drugs coming into that community, also weapons, hand
grenades, military weapons, and you get the image of these army-sized
black street gangs spreading across the country, because that's what the
media has been telling us. And the dirst thing you have is exactly what's
going on now. People saying: Give the CIA more power. Give FBI more
power. Give them all the Constitutional rights we need. And they're doing
it. that's what our "leaders" are doing and instead of us investigating
Central Intelligence, they now have more power to investigate us than
they've ever had in their life and they're about to get more. And my
prediction in Triangle of Death of a new drug that's right around the
corner that's even worse than crack... I think once that does happen you
can kiss our Constitution goodbye. That means right to own arms,
everything. It's gonna go.SCOTT: Well, that's interesting. My engineer here, Chuck Keller, just
passed me a little note and Chuck's just his it right on target here.
Taking a pledge really doesn't mean capital "S" with a HIT because
Congress swears an oath to the Constitution and you know what they do
there. They usurp the power of the Constitution. They don't even obey the
Constitution. Every one of these guys are sworn to uphold the Contitution
of the United States. Why would they take any serious pledge and keep
their word?LEVINE: Well, they're shredding it for us right now. This latest terrorism
bill, you know, based on TWA 800, which may or may not turn out to be
mechanical failure... We've just given Central Intelligence more power
than it ever had before to come after us and just imagine if a drug ten
times worse than crack, a drug that is genetically engineered by people
working for CIA, hits our street, just imagine how the American people...
how we're gonna be victimized.SCOTT: Yeah. Chuck, let's take the break early and we'll try to get these
calls on: Sam, Dave, and Henry both... on Mark Scott.<program break>
SCOTT: Talking about politics, corruption, media, and law enforcement, why
our politics... our political candidates don't talk about... They don't
tell the truth about drugs. I mean why should they? They've given Mexico
to the drug dealers. They've done this in return for the North American
Free Trade Agreement and we're disuccing it with deep cover agent, Michael
Levine. What'd they get in that NAFTA deal? How does that work? I mean,
they're binging drugs... Last time you and I talked you said they were
bringing in drugs through the same port of call that comes... that
delivers CIA stuff?LEVINE: Well, they... you imagine the way and drugs are coming in through
that country into the US. What's happening is, and I... We proved it. We,
the Drug Enforcement Administration, proved it on video the entire Mexican
government was for rent to drug dealers. We were promised, on video,
accessiblility to just about every top Mexican official. And that video
was given to our Justice Department, the Attorney General, Edwin Meese,
and right afterwards, I was told, he telephoned the Attorney General of
Mexico to warn him about us, the deep cover agents. This was later
verified by Elaine Shannon in her book so I used it in mine. I mean I
heard it all over both agencies - DEA and Customs. People were astounded.
The Attorney General of the US blowing a case. Blowing a cover. But
that... it's fact. You know. What can we do? Who can we Americans now
turn to? I mean that was the whole story of Deep Cover by the way which
was a New York Times bestseller and in Congress, I was told, it was the
most read book in the beltway in Washington but no one talked about it.
And I found that very interesting.SCOTT: So who can we turn to?
LEVINE: I think... I don't know, Mark. I believe that we have to start
looking for a third political party, you know, a political party that when
its representatives say the word loyalty they mean loyalty to the American
people, not to their party. Right now when a...SCOTT: Does that mean legalization of drugs like in a third party, like
the Libertarians?LEVINE: No. No. Absolutely not.
SCOTT: Alright well then what would we do?
LEVINE: Well, the drug issue and who do we turn to for leadership... Yeah
I suppose you could make it one. The drug issue is one I believe that can
easily be won. I think I said on your show, if you just give me a
community that's willing to work and a police department that's willing to
work with the community as a team and focus on the demand side of it we'll
win the drug war. I don't dare where the community is. It's not gonna
happen...SCOTT: Well what would you do through the people that want the drugs who
want to smoke and snort and that stuff? Guys like Clinton and his family,
you want to put them in jail?LEVINE: Well first thing you do is you villify the people who drive into a
community with money to buy drugs. They're not victims of Manny Noriega,
Ricky Ross, or anybody else. They chose to do that.SCOTT: But look, Clinton's brother says that his... that he's like a
Hoover vacuum... that his nose was like a Hoover vacuum! <laughs> I
mean...LEVINE: <laughs> Yeah. That's great. I mean...
SCOTT: Hoover ought to take that and use it as a...you know, a good...
that'd be really good merchandizing for the Hoover plant wouldn't it?LEVINE: Yeah. Well, you know there's less than 3 million hardcore addicts
in this country and that number's been pretty constant for the last ten
years and these less than 3 million buy 85% of the drugs and commit most
of the crimes and we perceive them as victims. And because we perceive
them as victims, what happens... like happened to my son and the crack
addict who murdered my son had two previous convictions for murder and he
was on the street because our society considers him a victim of Manny
Noriega. You turn that around as Japan did in 1963 you quickly win the
drug war. you focus on the drug problem the way communities do with
prostitution. You go to the John and you end prostitution. Now, that's
never gonna happen because what that would do is it would put 53
bureaucracies out of business including the Partnership for a Drug-free
America, who by the way, I wrote this up on a plan once and the Swedish
Carnegie Institute called it the only sensible plan ever to come out of
America. And who came after me first was an offshoot of the Partnership
for a Drug-free America. And in their in house memorandum, and I have it,
they said, "If Mike Levine's Fight Back program is a success it will take
the wind out of the sails of the Partnership."SCOTT: Yeah... Putting prostitutes out of... Going against prostitution
that puts the... That's a restraint... What do they call it? Restraint of
trade. <laughs>LEVINE: Well, you put a... You put...
SCOTT: I want to take some calls here. Doug.
LEVINE: Sure.
SCOTT: Let's do. From Doug from Detroit. Good morning, Doug.
DOUG: Good morning...
SCOTT: You're on WXYT with Mark Scott.
DOUG: Good morning, Mr. Levine. Yesterday I heard on talk radio that there
was photographs in the White House of Clinton, Gore, and a convicted drug
czar...SCOTT: No that's not it. It's not Clinton and Gore. It was Clinton and a
wo-... It was Gore and a woman. Al Gore and a woman with Carrera.DOUG: Oh. Well, I heard Clinton and Gore.
SCOTT: Well I saw the picture so I'm tellin' ya. Unless there are others
floating around. What do you know about it, Michael?DOUG: Well they... The Justice Department, Reno, was confiscating the
photos they wouldn't get out.SCOTT: What do you know, Michael, anything about it?
LEVINE: All I know is that between the Republicans and the Democrats they
both betrayed us. It doesn't matter. You can take these individual
pictures... You have the Attorney General, a Republican, blowing a deep
cover case. You have the President of the United States...SCOTT: We've gotta go, Michael. Time's up again. I'll tell ya this is a...
Thank you very much. It's been a great couple of hours here.LEVINE: It's been my pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
SCOTT: Thanks, Michael, and I'm Mark Scott. Excelsior!
ANNOUNCER: Ladies and Gentlemen, Mark Scott has left the building.
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